Last Night City Fights...a critique

Overall guys, very good job. I think we're coming along. I want to point out a few things that were discussed during and after the two fights.

#1 We're not going to win all of these. The simple fact of the matter is, 90% of us don't play all the time and with each other to all be 60+. We're going against ENTIRE wb's full of all 60+ or entire wb's full of 70+. We're simply outgunned here and forever will be. We need to realize who we're fighting and be happy that we give them a helluva fight.

#2 We don't play with each other at the T4 level as much as other players. Hell our dagger squad could use a couple more days a week where we kill destro together, but most of us have very busy lives outside of warhammer. It's fine; it's why we're all here in this alliance so we can be casual players. End result is it is going to take us bit longer to get used to fighting in set groups and/or with each other in a full warband.

#3 Us leaders need more experience too. Ben and I both have some experience in the city, but neither of us know ALL the out's and in's. To maximize how well we do, Ben and I both have to lead in the city more often.

#4 We need more dps from the dps. We have great healing and decent tanking. We did a wonderful job pushing into destro's backlines and there were several times I thought we would wipe them (even with the first fight), but because of a lack of dps, we couldn't bring them down. As alliance as a whole, we need to help gear our major dps players like our bw's, aoe slayers, etc. Subgoal for dps, get gear. Subgoal for everyone else, make it a priority to help gear these guys. In the end it's dps that will prove who wins city fights.

#5 WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE BOMBS GO OFF. We almost lost our 2nd city fight because of this. Let me repeat this. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE BOMBS GO OFF AT THE STARTING TWO BO's.

Cliffnotes:
#1 Don't expect to win vs everyone.
#2 We need more time playing as a warband with each other.
#3 Leaders need more time in the city.
#4 We need to gear out our dps more.
#5 WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE BOMBS GO OFF.

In the end, I think we did fantastic last night. The first group was actually WIPED by us a few times and given enough starting time, we probably would have had middle. The second fight, even though we could have been better guarding the initial BO's and the sapper, was really well played. Did anyone realize that our three groups (minus our best geared group) was taking on ALL of their players while our main group did lyceum, etc? That speaks volumes to you guys and your ability. That's a BIG deal. I think by the end of the second fight, we were having healers use LOS more, tanks staying by their guards more often, and everyone doing a really good job at pushing into their backlines all of which we have to do to be successful.

» Edited on: 2010-08-06 06:58:52

i cant wait to be apart of this stuff with the family.

I agree with you Vamp. We came out with a great victory in the second fight. As I said last night it was a 4th and 10 when we walked in with only 7 minutes on the clock. Great turnaround for everyone. Here's a couple things I would add, and some of them can just be applied to ORvR in general. #1 Get to know the map. Took me a while to understand how the flags and the portals worked. If you're not sure ask. Also we need to know the choke-points and use them more efficiently. #2 Leaders need to practice being more precise in directions and groups need to do better at listening. "Get there now", "Take the portal", "Use the flag" are all really vague. Granted knowing the plan, which is explained pretty well at the beginning helps, but in the heat of battle we can forget. Having said that, we the followers, piddled around too much which leads to my next point. #3 Be ready to move. Pay attention and know who you are. If we are running into a wall of destro let the armor move in first. (I know I'm just as bad but I was running close quarters last night, lol) Seriously though tanks need to move in first, melee then the squishies. When the leaders says go, do eet! #3 Don't go out alone! We learned this in Kindergarten and it works well here. Stragglers at this stage of the game now take their lives in their own hands and are usually guaranteed a swift death. #4 Lastly and something that we need to work overall on is target selection. We need just enough dps to press into their backline healers and bombers while keeping enough back to fend off their rush on ours. I think too often we overbalance one way or the other. i.e. too much offense and our healers get toasted or too much defense and they eventually wear us down. Having said that one strategy that worked for us well last night was: Hidden Dagger (aka Rope-a-Dope) The main force (3 groups) jammed their front lines hard at the center choke point while 1 group came from behind using the west portal and took out their back lines. My only note on this is that we can't get too predictable in which portal we use for the Hidden Dagger. (Hey do I get credit for coming up with a strategy and a cool name for it to boot???)

» Edited on: 2010-08-06 08:12:32

[#4 We need more dps from the dps. We have great healing and decent tanking. We did a wonderful job pushing into destro's backlines and there were several times I thought we would wipe them (even with the first fight), but because of a lack of dps, we couldn't bring them down. As alliance as a whole, we need to help gear our major dps players like our bw's, aoe slayers, etc. Subgoal for dps, get gear. Subgoal for everyone else, make it a priority to help gear these guys. In the end it's dps that will prove who wins city fights.] Didn't we had a lack of DPS yesterday? I remember Ben mentioning we were too heavy on healers and too light on DPS before going in, so we had to take a few sub-40 DPS to fill the slots.

Sorry I missed out on the fun last night, but I was too tired to join you when CW locked. I'm pretty sure I WASN'T destined to join you anyway, because we lost our cable connection 10 min later :P

I would like to throw out a Stage 1 IC city strategy for discussion... (feel free to pick it apart - thats what brainstorming is for) Stage 1 is all about the center. We cant win if you don't take it, and we have a real good chance of winning if we do. So, here's my thought... (Note that we have done things similar to this on Alliance raids): Send groups 1, 2 & 3 to the center immediately, and hit it together. Get there as fast as possible... but TOGETHER. If destro is trickling in to defend center, the 3 groups kill and send them back to spawn (in this case, the respawn timer is our friend) Once the trickling-back-in-effect begins, its hard to reform again. (I say this because "hold and regroup" takes patience, and most folk just run back in) If Destro has already formed up on center, the 3 groups keep them distracted as long as possible. Meanwhile... Group 4 (or even better, just 3-4 DPS characters, with no tanks or healers) They goes right and take out the cannons asap. They do not wait on Sapper, but go to left, and take those cannons asap. They do not wait for that Sapper either, but go join everyone else in middle. With 2 BOs exposed, and 2 Sappers running simultaneously, Destro would have to have at least one player at each BO, picking up the Sapper bombs as they are placed. If we are pushing the center hard, I don't think they would block both because people want to be "in the action" (but they might). The instant we get the message that one of the Sappers was successful, everyone drops whatever destro target they had, and focus' on the back cannon (or a pre-arranged one... but the back cannon is harder to pick off in later pushes). My point here is, that we are on a central cannon as early as possible on the timer, not still back at the flags waiting for the bomb to go off. With everyone focusing on the cannon, the party would probably wipe at this point. But, I think a successful cannon kill is more important than a party wipe... heh heh... If we don't wipe, its all gravy and we take em all. If we do wipe... Well it goes back to the usual "death march to try to take the cannons by a variety of routes"...

It has been my experience that you generally can't "sneak" a victory from Destro in the center. You either have enough beef and firepower to push them off and take it cleanly or they have enough beef and firepower to keep you from doing that. Destroying the cannons is necessary, but if you can't wipe the Destro (or at least seriously push them around), you aren't going to be able to stop them from taking it (Altdorf) or take it yourself (IC). The most important tactical thing I've noticed from running in Nezz's WBs is that you have to push together. Healers have to move forward with the tanks and DPS. And if the healers get mezzed, the tanks and DPS have to fall back and protect them until they are unmezzed and everyone can push forward. Generally speaking, the WB that can maintain their cohesion (or blobbiness) will win. The tie breaker goes to the higher RR warband after that. Also, group composition is very important. One super group in your WB is better than splitting all your strong players among the other groups to bolster them. They are simply harder to kill and can kill more. Ideally this "super" group will be all high RR people, 2 healers (preferably WP), 2 DPS (preferably BW) and two tanks (preferably Knights). However, RR trumps class composition in most cases. Lastly, to drive home something Vamp said, our DPS needs upgrading. My swordmaster had the most deathblows in the first run and was in the top 3 on the second with something like 30 or so. In a warband with more lethal DPS, I generally get 10-12 DBs for a city run. BW should all be bomb specced. Slayers should all be AOE specced. If the alliance needs to reimburse people to respec going in that that should probably be done. Anyway, that's my $1.02. Please don't take anything I said above as an attack on anyone. It is my "analysis" of what needs to improve and is meant to provoke some ideas and stir up useful discussion. :)

Generally there are two situations when attacking the city. Either a.) the defense trys to spawn camp you and fights at the first 2 BOs or B.) they immediotely set up at the choke on the 3rd BO. In the first situation there really is no trick except to kill them aa they trickle in from the long run and stick together. On the other hand in option b, there is a trick that massively helps. The key to taking the 3rd BO in the city (the middle chokepoint position) is capping the second BO and then before waiting on the renown tick immediotely go to the 3rd BO. Your entire WB will stay in combat (and thus have m4) for the 30 seconds that the sapper takes to detonate the bomb. If the enemy force is turtled at the choke they will have zero morale while literally everyone in your WB will have it. This makes for a very easy fight. The key is moving quickly from the 2nd BO to the 3rd so that you still have morale and not tickling in to allow the enemy time to gain morale for themselves. Trust me, when one side has back to back IMACs for the first 30 secs of the fight and the other side does not, the outcome is nearly guaranteed.

I think one thing we are lacking is WH's. The last 3 city fights I haven't seen a single WH. Now I know on my WH we have a silence, we have a heal debuff, and we have a whole lot of killing power when it comes to killing healers. Honestly I think the IB/WH/WL should push backlines to take out healers while the KoTBS/SL/SM stay back with the healers. As a healer there is nothing worse than trying to heal people who run out of range and pull you into the shit to get abandoned and hung out to dry. If we don't have protection we will die rather quickly. Especially with their WE's being so bloody powerful. Once engaged i have about a 3 second survival time. Once I die and the other healers die we lose. Unless we can have a crew protecting them we are going to have issues. That's just my observation of the last few city fights. We cant let their dps have free roam on our healers. So someone go find relunter and some other wh's the family needs them :D.

I need to work on beinga able to be a factor in this. Coming back as a 32 SW has been hard. I haven't been able to get traction on leveling and I am not that great at it anyway. I have only managed to join a couple of T4 raids since I have returned. For lack of finding things to do I have been playing the lower tiers.

Bashir come out Saturday morning please. I wanna go archer with ya again like the old days! :D.

"#1 We're not going to win all of these. The simple fact of the matter is, 90% of us don't play all the time and with each other to all be 60+. We're going against ENTIRE wb's full of all 60+ or entire wb's full of 70+. We're simply outgunned here and forever will be. We need to realize who we're fighting and be happy that we give them a helluva fight." I'm just in T3 so i don't know all of the situation in T4 yet. That being said I do know a thing or two about guilds. Vamp I realize you are trying to encourage everyone. From what I have seen with the leadership in the family has me amazed you are all good people and I look forward to doing T4 with you. I really don't think that the alliance will forever be outgunned. I just posted about group make up and reading some of the responses I see that there are issues with group makeup not enough WH it would seem. That being said let me ask a few questions. 1)What are your goals for the guild in a sense with city sieges and the server in general? 2)How will you reach those goals? (If you are going to have a causal mindset and take whoever be prepared to get rick rolled so to speak.) At the end of the day fun is what matters, but going in and getting rolled over everytime will only be fun for so long. I ran a guild in WoW this is what I have learned. Even causals want to move forward taking the time and making people work a little in order to get their RR up before they go into the city is not a bad thing. There are those in the alliance that work very hard in getting their RR up and they should be rewarded for that by getting a city group that can go toe to toe with destro WB in the city. Most of my MMO experience is with WoW but let me share with you a story. When I became a guild leader I spent time looking for a loot system that would work for the guild considering is more PVE based. I came to the conclusion that DKP was the best system, because it rewarded the people who put the time and effort into helping the guild progress through content. The people that complain about this system are the "Casuals". People who don't have the time to or just don't want to put the work into it. The thing is that any loot system is and always will be unfair, the key to making it work is getting over that. Loot systems are all about getting your guild to reach the goals that the leadership set for it. It's not the guilds fault people don't have time to play, it's not the guilds fault that the have RL. Causal players want the "experience/loot" without having to put the time and effort into getting there. In the end it ruins the experience for everyone else and those players will leave to go to a guild that will get things done. What are the goals for the alliance and how will you get there? This is most important question because how you answer will determine how you will do your WBs for cities. Having a RR cap is one way to insure your group will reach the goals you have set out for the guild when it comes to city runs. I know what you might think (Why should people be left out simply because they can't play all the time?). That is true and would be the fair thing to do, but fair is not always right and what about the people who are putting the work into their RR being held back because of something that is not their fault. Like players not being able to play because of RL. That is not the guilds fault and the guild should not be held back because of it. I have no vested interest in T4 because I'm not there yet. I just thought I would share my thoughts on it.

I agree with Ben's post on us needing WH's. Those would be FANTASTIC. I wholeheartedly disagree with keeping our tanks by our healers. NO no No. I counter with pointing back at Aeth's "Generally speaking, the WB that can maintain their cohesion (or blobbiness) will win." Read that paragraph containing this quote. It's how you win in city fights and it's going to be how we win in orvr come 1.36. We have issues with healers and squishes NOT moving in behind tanks; they prefer to hang back....which equals them dying in DROVES to WE's. EVERYONE has to move forward. The thing that has to be used to protect healers is our dps. Sounds crazy doesn't it? But the very good warbands all move in one big blob and because the healers are moving with everyone and are so close to their dps anyways...the dps can easily move 2 steps back and kill any WE's or Choppas. If tanks and healers hang back, guess what? Our dps dies without heals and/or our healers will die anyways to WE's. Tanks can't do much to guarded and healed WE's cept do a single punt. That punt only buys healers like 2 or 3 secs (if they're not immune). In response to Eli's post... We're definitely more casual than hardcore. I mainly wanted to remind folks that we won't be able to win vs everyone AND be casual. It just doesn't happen. BUT with that being said, we can still cause Hardcore Destro severe headaches and beat anyone with a similar warband makeup.

» Edited on: 2010-08-06 12:29:45

I think theres a VERY important fact a lot of people are missing. Our Alliance is Currently Comprised Of: - Mostly Casual Players (Playing less than 10 Hours a Week Per Character) Our Current Makeup of Active Registered Tuatha Members is as such based on the past 72 Hours: 18 RR80 Don't have a way of tracking if their active or not as they do not earn exp or renown therefor I cant monitor a change 26 RR70-79 29 RR60-69 20 RR50-59 34 RR40-49 30 RR30-39 43 RR20-29 32 RR10-19 6 RR1-9 See Tuatha Demographics For Details The fact is that we need to get more people higher RR rank so that we can compete. Nezz fills entire warbands of RR70+. In the past 4 events I ran, I had less than 5 people that are RR70+. If we go up against a premade like Nezz runs winning will be quite the challenge. So please keep this in mind next time were in a city instance. If you want to win All the time you should be looking for Nezz or another High end premade. The Tuatha just doesn't have that kind of firepower to throw around. We're getting there but it's baby steps. We are for the most part Casual players and put in less than 10 hours a week on our characters. I will be adding more demographics in the coming weeks.

Wow! Thats excellent! I thought we only had 3 eighties... heh heh... We have 18! Even though I play more than 10 hours a week (cough... ok... maybe a good bit more), I still consider myself a casual player. Not in the time invested, but in my attitude toward the game. I value our relationship with each other much more than winning. I would rather help support an alliance WB and loose, than be in an uber-group full of strangers. Don't get me wrong, of course I'd rather win than loose... But dying doesn't hurt my feelings - Especially if it somehow contributes to the greater good. (I'm often the decoy/guard that sacrifices himself to distract destro, so a runner can deliver the part in Serpents passage...) As for the City, I think that Daghdre's technique of filling WBs for the city speaks to everyone's comments that have been posting here. He says, "Who wants to go to the city? Everyone who is 70+ raise your hand." He invites them. Then "Everyone who is 60+ raise your hand". "50+... 40+... anyone over 32...". He does this because it is a balance, and it creates the best Alliance WB possible. Yes, we could form a stronger WB by only having the 70+ folk together, and only inviting high level random folk that are looking for a group in /1 or /2... But, at that point, its no longer family.

Stoat I understand, I appreciate the mindset of creating an enviroment that is relaxed and fun. I've lost track of the players in WoW that I see quit or move on because of burn out because of lack of progression. You can still be be causal and competetive when it comes to city runs, but you will still need some guidelines to reach that point. I'm an idealist and a dreamer I love the attitude created by the family, which is why I want to see it succeed to do that everyone will have to step up and work a little harder, help each other get gear and Renown do premade SCs to have level people's renown. When I hit t4 I plan on setting up premade sc night, for the guild I'm in and will open it up to anyone in the alliance so we can get to RR80 as fast as possible not only that but the emblems will get people the gear they need. While I think going into the city will be fun I feel I still have a lot to learn about WPs and so I want to be useful in the spec I have decided to play. That is a grace spec WP which is a frontline healer/buffer. Here is a twist on a saying "Ask not what your guild can do for you but what you can do for your guild". Casual or not we can all afford to work harder so we can make our alliance that much better. Those players that do player 10 hours spend those 10 hours on your main getting it to RR80, I know I will not touch another toon until my WP is at RR80. We can say we apprecaite the mindset of family and I do. But don't use it as a excuse to not succeed. Pull together help each other reach RR80 and get gear and go into the city and kick some serious Destro __________. hehe That's what families do too. =oD I was a hardcore raider in WoW when I started playing then I went more causal. The casual guild was more successful then the hardcore guild because of one thing. "We used the time we had to the fullest." There is the key to begin successful as a casual guild. You take the time you have and you get everything you can out of it. Trust me it feels great when as a casual guild you surpass the hardcore guild that are emo most of the time. I believe with the leadership in place that if everyone pulls together and does what they can to reach RR80 and gear each other out that we will surprise the hell out of the Destro side. I for one want to see that. =oD

Sure. What time on Sat mornings?

10am PST / 1PM EST

There's alot of things you've gotta think about when you look at that breakdown Ben posted there. It shows 18 rr 80s, but in reality there arn't really all that many that actually play with us. Once you drop the people that never or rarely join our warbands, you're left with maybe 4-5 80s: Tallahassee, Korzak, Gillber, Craythur, and maybe Dask. The same is true for the list of players in the 70-79 range, the majority of the active characters are not being played within the Tuatha warbands. The truth is that many of the higher rank players don't play their mains in our zerg-bands, and I know a number of us tend to sit out of the cities because we've been burned out a bit. As more players hit the 70-79 range (which they are doing in droves, even Don is getting close!), and get into the full Excelsior wards, I think you'll see our city warbands being alot more effective.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. T4 night are open WBs anyone can join. The Destro see then as one big zerg fest and disappear. I think once there is enough RR70+ you will see things starting to move ahead. When your RR80 don't want to do anything with the family that in and of itself is a statement. I realize Fogh is work hard so that this server will not go the way others did, but I think everyone in the family will benefit when there are family only WBs that are competetive. I think the leadership is awesome but you can get to the point where you can do to much. I was looking at the roster for Tier 4 Foghladha is Rank 40 and RR33. Vampire you're almost 80 gogo it awesome to see. But how much of the guild leadership is working toward RR80 everytime they log in? I will be honest will not set foot in the city until I am Rank 40 RR40. THen I might consider it. Given the nature of needing badges and gear I might be forced to go sooner. I just think people can be to ADHD in Warhammer. I will be honest it will be awesome when the family and field warbands of RR70+. Destro won't know what hit them. hehe. The point that I'm getting at is that it starts at the top and works it's way down. Just be careful that you try to do so much for the server that you have no time to level your mains to RR80. Be careful of the "Stepping stone syndrome" that you can get stuck in as a guild. Where players stay until RR 80 and then move on to other guilds because causual or not they want to get stuff done when they log in and they go to other guilds. Example being what Korzak wrote where you have 4 to 5 RR80s that run with the Family. I've been a guild leader and that is a frustrating thing to overcome. People will do what they do, but there really needs to be more of a focus on EVERYONE hitting RR80 sooner rather than later. But this is just my opinion. What might be good for the server might not be good for the family. Just something for everyone to think about.

Sub-40 DPS presenting, sir! =) That's a great thread. I don't have much to add to it yes, as I am still learning the ropes of City invasion. Learning the hard way. About yesterday, i would like to apologize for not being a very good at following orders at vent. I am... how can I put that?... I am still getting used to vent. I'm not used to play and speak (and mostly listen) at the same time, and most of all, I'm not very used to have to communicate fast (without time to think) in my second language. But I did what I could. :)

Seabhran you're at the right place. We've ALL been there, wondering what to do next, even if English wasn't our second language like yourself. Btw Seabhran did you do your epic weapon quest yet? Wait do you have been to be a min 38 to start that? I volunteer to help you do the quest. Here's the link: Battleax of the Comet Then once you hit 40, we'll run you in Bastion Stairs for your uber crit weapon. After that, it's just a matter of you getting lucky in stage 2 for another weapon and/or grinding insignias for your sc weapons. EDIT: You have to be level 37 to start the quest chain.

» Edited on: 2010-08-07 07:42:39

Thanks Foghladha. =) I just hit rank 36, but gonna do some grind so I hit rank 37 real fast. The weapont i'd get for the quest would be the Longbow of the Comet? Is a nice weapon, but not that much better than my Passwatch Warbow. I would love to get the Longbow of the Comet anyway, because any improvement to my DPS is welcome. I'd love to run Bastion Stairs with the family. I'll hit 40 is short time (since I'll use the scroll when I hit 39 to jump straight to 40).

I have a 40/37 WH right now that I could do a bit more rvr with, at least to try and get full invader and also bring into the city. The problem is that my main is now rr62 and takes a lot more commitment to get renown ranks - and I would like him in full warlord as soon as possible

Ha! My bad. For w/e reason I thought you were a WL Seabrahn. Let me see what would be a better bow. This will be slightly better for you: Nightstalker Though for your 1h sword you'll want to do: Masterblade of the Comet

» Edited on: 2010-08-07 09:34:50

Hey All, been with you guys for a month or so now and have done a few runs on my rp Paragon, the two things I would add to the discussion are: 1. Assisting, I don't see alot of this going on. Is it feasible to have an MA for each party and focus fire to more effect? Certainly in Daoc and other pvp games I have played this has been the tactic to get around having lower level dps operating. 2. Healer protection. I am obviously biased(being a healer myself), but I feel that we healers need more help. I don't generally have a person to "run" to, I have even dragged We's that are on me to dpsers and had them either run off or ignore what is happening in front of them. My 2 cents :)

I think the Nightstalker may be nice (depending if its socketed or not), but the sword I can use in the comet list is Gladius of the Comet, not Masterblade of the Comet (a two-handed weapon). I'm very surprised how hard it is to find better weapons than Passwatch Warbow and my Tier3 ORVR Inf Falcata (i always forget its name)

Elistanus, I have been playing since launch and so has Fog, neither of us have any RR80's. My closest character is my KoTBS who just hit RR68 and Fog's highest is Daghdre who nearly RR64. In the past we had a few players in the family that hurried their way into the high RR's left the guild to find "more competitive groups." Nearly all of them stopped playing before we transfered to Badlands. I believe that if I had focused on my Knight until he was 80 I would have burned out and quit the game a long time ago. "Play how you want when you want" is one motto of the family. Everyone can progress at their own pace. If we lose in the city we lose in the city. No different from a Scenario in my opinion. When you go into the city you will get 1 of 5 different groups: 1) Empty Instance 2) Destro Pug 3) Half Pug/Half Premade 4) 1 group Premade/3 groups Pugs 5) Destro Premade "What might be good for the server might not be good for the family. Just something for everyone to think about." I disagree. Without the server we wont have a game to play and at that point what good is a family of RR80's. Just my thoughts and in no way meant as an attack on anyone.

» Edited on: 2010-08-08 12:46:30

Na, Donaliam I don't consider your post an attack. This a discussion plain and simple. These discussions lend to learn from each other. I know the dangers of getting burnt out. Games in general have to be fun more than anything. You right about getting burnt out if you rush all the time. That being said the point I'm trying to make is that at some point the family will be competetive with other guilds on the server. I'm not in T4 yet so this is just making observations. I like Causal guilds myself because I did the hardcore thing and I don't want to have another job. hehe With causal guild though there is a great need to be focused. You have less time to get things done than say a hardcore guild, so you have to make the most of the time you have as a guild. Decide where you are going to put that focus reach that goal and move on to the next one. If the guild needs more RR70+ toons then put the focus there, you don't have to sign your life away to get there just use the time you have to reach that goal and move on to the next one. I like the atmosphere here and while I like being competitive, I also like building stuff. It's in my nature to be that way. I have decided to help the guild I'm in and the family reach that point. So I will try to get to RR80 as fast as possible without getting burnt out. I'm going to use the little time I have to progress my toon in the spec and gear I need so I can be of help and have fun. My honest assessment is when the family can field a entire WB of RR70+ toons alot of people on this server are going to be surprised by what happens. =oD

In that case Seabrahn, forgo Nightstalker and get the Wyvern's Talon from "faith is madness" quest line. It has wounds + an empty tali slot. It doesn't have ballistic skill on it though so if your current 1h sword has wounds + b skill, I'd just stick with that.

I'm experimenting with a new sword (a green one, temporary at best) that boosts thoughness and has more BS. Gotta try to get something to boost my Wounds. I spent all this time boosting only BS. I wish it had paid, but I still cant hit some higher levels effectively. So its time to go for some more survivability.

Seabhran - A lot depends on how you play your SW, and if the focus of your play is in oRvR or Scenarios... Personally, I prefer oRvR - (To me, thats where the fun in the game is). Shadow Warriors were not given stealth in WAR, so I do not see my role as a "hidden sniper". My job is doing max damage I can to the target that is farthest away. Maxing out your Ballistics is essential for keep seige and defense (taking down oil, harrassing folk on walls, silencing casters, or shooting healers from top of walls). So, I am full scout and have dedicated almost all my renown training, and talisman slots toward Ballistics (unbuffed I'm about 1150 or so). I have accepted the "soft cap penalty" for the extra little bit of DPS... (Once you hit 1050 Balistics, you only get 50% benefit from each additional point). In my case, I am 100 points over, which means I am effectively throwing away 100 additional points that could have been used elsewhere (actually, backing off to 1050, would give 200 points to put elsewhere). This is ok, if you go in with open eyes, and keep-seigeing is your thing :) However! (and this is a big however) if Scenarios are your thing, I would NOT recommend the path I have taken. I have become more aware of this after the marathon of Scenarios I've been grinding through since they added the Scenario weapons. I know I am putting an extra strain on our healers when doing scenarios, do to my lower defensive stats. You may want to consider dropping your ballistics WAY back, and put point into armor or hit points... I'm sure other skirmish SWs could give better advice there, since I don't have much experience there. As a side note - Be sure to look at your "off-hand" sword too. The stats from that weapon count towards your total, even when it is sheathed and you are using your bow :) Also, check your tactics - some of them increase the damage of specific arrow types.

Heya Stoats! I'm happy to know we have the same playing style. For me, the meaning and life calling of a Sword Master is being a long range marksmans (so, a Scout). I'm not good at skirmish, and I only use skirmish and assault when I really need to, and when scout would be inefective (i.e. some situations in City and Scenarios). But even there, I use scout a lot just because i'm stubborn. =) So I guess I'm doing the right choice of talismans. I'm almost completely focused on BS. I say almost, because I have some jewelry giving me some Toughness, Initiative and Wounds just for the sake a little survivability, but not much. When I want to go closer to my enemies, I play with Eirean, my Swordmaster. LOL BTW, what gear would you suggest me to use as a 37/37 Shadow Warrior? I'm presently using Anni Set (except for the helm, that's still Dev because I didnt get a single Anni drop from keeps), and Passwatch Bow. For the sword, i'm experimenting with a green i just found, but i used to wield Qayish Falcata (from T3). And... what do you mean by off-hand sword? =)

» Edited on: 2010-08-09 07:52:04

Interestingly enough I've found that in assaults on IC the hardest point to take is the outcrop. The problem is that that there are only two approaches to outcrop and they can engage you really far away from the point itself, making it hard to rush cannons and eventually the sapper. Also theres plenty of room to spread out to prevent aoe. I've been in two seiges where we took everything but outcrop and still failed the stage. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I think attacking from the dragon summoning side while a distraction force pulls them to the temple may be the way to go. Unfortunately, Order does not have a similar setup, our points at the docks are nearly impossible to defend with the cramped quarters and limited sight distance. Its basically hold the center or you've lost. You could probably pandora the city gates, but the lobbas are ridiclously hard to kill so you usually lose the gate anyway. Anywho, win some lose some as long as you're having fun it doesn't matter what the outcome is (like the city instance where we got the acolytes premade). I feel like as long as I'm not being farmed at the spawn, there's fun to be had.

» Edited on: 2010-08-09 13:20:43

The funny thing is I always felt City DEFENSE to be far easier than City SIEGE. I've never been at the losing team at DEF, but only scored once at a Siege.