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Life after WvW

Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Osu
Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
  • GW2: Osu.6307
Posted On: 12/10/2015 at 01:33 PM
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Anyone heard any credible rumors concerning when the big wvw update is going to be rolled out? The reason I ask is because I'm rapidly losing my patience with the current sorry state of wvw. Like many GSCH before me, I left SoR a while back in order to wvw on more heavily-populated servers. I'm currently on Maguuma in T3 (the so-called "fights tier"). I don't know what wvw is like down in lower tiers, but T3 is dead, so it can't possibly be better. Before HoT, NA prime wvw in T3 was awesome, at least during NA prime. Usually there would be one queue'd BL as well as a few more guild groups on other BL's. In the past week, I only played once because there was miraculously a huge brawl in DB BL. Every other day, there's not a single tag on any BL and TS is deserted. I'm not going to list the reasons for the player boycott of wvw, as you can all read those for yourselves on the forums if you care too. I'm just hoping someone knows someone who knows someone who overheard some anet devs talking shop over coffee and mentioned a timetable. Anyone got anything credible they can share? At this point I just need some hope. I know myself, and if I leave gw2 for another game, I probably won't come back. WvW has been the most fun I have had in any game ever, hands down. It just makes me so sad that the ONE TIME anet bothered to make any substantive changes to wvw, they screwed up so badly that they are on the verge of destroying the thing they were trying to improve.

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Laoch de na Iolair Dearg
Lakshmi
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 01:38 PM PST
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I haven't heard any "when" just a confirmation from Colin J on reddit that it's in the works.

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 01:42 PM PST



» Edited on: 2015-12-10 13:42:39

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 03:20 PM PST
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Anyone that knows cant say anything. There are plans in the work and their not too far off the horizon. You will likely hear about it in the end if year notes realeased every year. Nothing at anet happens fast. Its planned and calculated.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 03:22 PM PST
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Lets also not forget the CDI forum threads where WvW players encouraged this change. How would you feel if your wife asked you to do something then got mad at you for doing it. Thats the situation arenanet is in right now. They did what was asked of them and now people hate them for it.



» Edited on: 2015-12-10 15:23:27

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Osu
Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
  • GW2: Osu.6307
Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 04:30 PM PST
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How would you feel if your wife asked you to do something then got mad at you for doing it? Happens all the time because I didn't do it correctly. Why can't those dudes at anet do what we mean, not what we say!!!

Seriously though, I guess I did not read the QQ on the forums before HoT as there was no need. I do recall that from the moment the desert borderland was unveiled, most of the comments were along the lines of the map is too big, too confusing, has too many chokepoints, has too many cliffs, etc. The best comment I read was it was a great map, for pve. Honestly, the only things I would keep from the new map are the resource nodes in the keeps and the buffed champs. 

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Saighdiuir de na Fhiaigh
sklurb
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 04:39 PM PST
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The desert WvW maps are so much better designed, both horizontally and vertically. Fantastic topography for varied experiences. They are confusing at first, like pretty much any large map that has a lot of content. HoT definitely went with a massive scale this go around. Anet just needs to entice people to clog up the queues!

 

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Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Osu
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 06:13 PM PST
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Verticality and map complexity may be fun for roamers, but it is a nightmare for zerging. Ever watched a gvg in one of the old BL's? They pick a piece of flat ground so the better zerg wins, not the one with the terrain advantage. 

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 07:14 PM PST
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Yes, Osu, But take into consideration Guild Halls now have an Arena for GvG and they also have Teams for GvG in sPvP. Many of the reasons guilds played WvW are not longer required to even go to WvW to do that kind of gameplay. They now have alternate areas where they can control the environment. 

Plus theirs no masteries in WvW. A lot of people left WvW to go level up their Masteries and Specializations so they could be uberleet in WvW again. If they ad some love to the WvW side like they have the PvE and PvP side, i'm certain WvW will be hot even with these new maps.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 12/10/2015 at 08:59 PM PST
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The problem is not the new maps.  They offer better fighting opportunity, strategies, etc.  The problem is populating them, because the maps need a zone-ful of people to be properly utilized.

If people remember, quite a while back, I said that WvW megaservers are the inevitable evolution and if Arenanet didn't make the move by the end of 2015, I'd be surprised. 

Well, here we are.  The writing has been on the wall for a while, it's going to happen in some form, it needs to happen.

Other than that, pretty much what Fog already said, I would have said as well. 

This game is evolving and people need to decide if they want to lament the old, or embrace the new.

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Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Osu
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Replied On: 12/11/2015 at 07:36 AM PST
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Yeah, megaserver seems like a foregone conclusion now. I hope that's what anet is currently working on. If they make it something like ESO's campaigns I think it would work fine. People will complain about losing server identity, but it is preferable to losing the entire game mode. However, it's hard to be optimistic given anet's reputation on neglecting or hurting wvw. 

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Lorgaire de na Sailetheach
Sword
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Replied On: 12/11/2015 at 01:02 PM PST
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Ill post on this soon.  I could not agree with the original post any more .... 110% if that was possible lol.

Will post my reasons soon.

I need a six foot long scroll to pen them on.... and a team of Gaiscioch editors to fix all my errors.  :)

 

Been a tough day, lost my uncle this morning. He was one of the good guys. Hard to type about a game while eyes cloudy.

Just trying to read stuff to keep my mind occupied.

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 12/11/2015 at 01:08 PM PST

@ Owens - My condolences to you and yours. I hope you are well. 

@ Thread - I'm hoping what ever changes they make it improves the overall experience for the game and doesn't place any arbitrary grind walls in our paths as that seems to be the standard for HoT.

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 12/11/2015 at 03:42 PM PST
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Spotlight on the Desert Borderlands maps by the Tales of Tyria podcasters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tsUK57DlAs

They see the vertical and maze like features of the Desert Borderlands maps as the problem.  Traveling between keeps is not fun.  Opposing groups can easily avoid each other so guilds looking for battles are having a difficult time finding someone to fight.

The podcasters suggest having megaservers for WvW like Edge of the Mists.  Guilds will choose which color they want to represent.

The new keeps are well designed and maybe should be used in Eternal Battlegrounds.

 

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 12/12/2015 at 02:27 AM PST
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Like Fog said, guilds who want GvG have other options now.  These are the same guild that like to open field PVP being S camp, they just want a nice easy, flat area to fight in.  Emphasis on "easy".  Now they have easier options, outside of WvW.

The problem is seriously not the map design, its the lack of population on them.  It's a little more difficult to avoid opposing forces, when a map is fully populated.  Those maps are designed for high population, I mean look at EotM map... it has similar design, but due to the high population, its really easy to find a fight.

Another problem, is that they went and made 3 of those new maps available.  There is just no way the lower tier servers can populate 4 maps, even the high tiers weren't able to fully populate all of the old Alpine maps at once.

That's a huge problem right there, is that an entire zergs can miss each other, because they may be on entirely different maps and due to the low pop, they may never see each other or even be aware that other zergs are out there.

One of the things that Arenanet should have to take into consideration, was making one Borderland map available, rather than three.  In this case, it can be said that hindsight is 20/20, but they did not properly play-test the WvW portion of the expansion.  They should have known that the maps were designed for higher populations and they should have ensured that they ran some tests, where the maps were as fully populated as possible.

Instead, they chose the path of "selling Beta acccess" and only making the maps available... what, once?  Just a bad decision of marketing over proper testing.  (sorry Anet folks, but being an ex-MS STE, my training and instinct is to be critical of things like this)

But I digress (I'm still irritated that they didn't let us test WvW, as you can tell).

I'm not really sure how I would design a megaserver.  ESO is the logical go-to-model, but ESO also has it's own set of issues with it's design.  Even with my vast decade-plus experience in Siege Warfare gaming, I still haven't come up with a flawless design, myself.  I'll be interested in seeing what Colin and his team come up with.



» Edited on: 2015-12-12 02:33:27



» Edited on: 2015-12-12 13:48:38

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Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Osu
Tiarna de na Fhiaigh Corcra
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Replied On: 12/12/2015 at 12:36 PM PST
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I found the ESO campaign model to be satisfactory. Is it perfect? No, but it errs on the side of flexibility which I appreciate. Come to think of it, the campaign system was pretty much the only thing about ESO that wasn't totally screwed up. Haha!

My model for a future GW2 wvw model would be something like this:

1) Servers for wvw are abolished. Instead of having a default server, all players pick 1 of 3 campaigns (ESO style). Campaigns last 1 week for the first 4 weeks, and 3 weeks thereafter. Each campaign has a different theme and point system so you can pick your own playstyle. Campaign A is for traditional PPT and points are awarded just like they are now. Campaign B is for fights. Points for objectives are halved, but points per kill (PPK) are also awarded. This was done for a week in the spring I think and was a lot of fun. Campaign C blends traditional PPT and PVE. In addition to normal PPT, points are awarded for participating in killing champs and other mobs. Think of Conquest in Rift. Killing the Champs that spawn at set intervals would be huge events and would pull players together for big battle royales. I like this model because it lets people play the way they want, something that GW2 is supposed to be about. 

2) Rewards for each campaign are also variable. Winners get a decent base reward, but the REAL reward scales based on participation. For every objective taken, objective defended, player killed, champ mob killed, etc., you accumulate points which can be cashed in for worthwhile rewards. I envision averaging 4 hours per day and racking up heroic amounts of points should be rewarded with ascended chests, skins, etc. Players are also allowed to "guest" to other campaigns but their contribution does not advance their individual reward points.

3) Maps are as follows: EBG stays the same, but the borderland maps rotate by week. By rotate I mean both Alpine and Desert maps are used but they rotate so that each faction gets each map in their home BL the same amount of time. This would also allow anet to test out new maps. If they introduced a "Grasslands" map, they could put that in the rotation too. 

Those are just the broad strokes. 

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 12/12/2015 at 02:06 PM PST
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Ok, so I have to eat some foot here and ... well, apologize for being harsher than I should have been with my criticisms re: testing of the new maps.  As folks can see, I scratched out some of my earlier criticisms, because I was not aware that there was stuff that we've all been unaware of, therefore rendering my assumptions incorrect (although if viewed from the perspective of being on the outside of a NDA cloaking spell, they're understandable assumptions).

I am very much looking forward to seeing what is coming.  WvW is the only reason that I play GW2.  It's not that I don't enjoy the other content, but rather that I can do PvE in any game, versus only having two games available, where I can play my favorite content (siege warfare) in.

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 12/14/2015 at 08:30 AM PST

I think they have a good idea with the current maps I agree they just need more players in them. Bringing the idea of battlegroups into play might work as multiple servers could be assigned to a battle group based on time zones, either matching up like time zones or doing a balancing act having one from most time zones in a battle group. 

I think they next thing they should do is to create a reason to hold the points. ESO has a reason to hold the scrolls. so why can't we have a reason to hold the points like keeps and towers. 

Example of this:

Calvary to the rescue: Holding four towers allows the controling team's commanders a skill that increases run speed for the squad by 150% for an hour. Cooldown is 3 hours. Cancels on combat. 

Supplies win the war: Every additional supply depot you have gives a bonus to the amount of supply base users can hold by +1. Lossing a supply depot reduces all supply held by players from that realm on the maps primary ( aka SOR Map, SOR players only if it was held by SOR) by a factor of -2 supply.

TO THE KEEPS!: Holding two keeps in a map allows the range of siege weapons to be increased so long as they are placed on KEEP walls.

I like to see something like that. It allows commanders to plan out an attack and people and choose which is more important to keep.

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