Tank Stat/Build Help

I was feeling rather "squishy" for a (RvR) tank, so I've been trying to shift things around to stack Initiative instead of Strength. Right now (40/41) I stand at:

Strength: 455 (too low for my taste!)
Toughness: 544
Initiative: 418
Wounds: 746 (haven't added any... that's what's 'naturally' on my equipment)

That Toughness almost caps me (74.3%) without Aetheric Armor, and puts me at 87% with it. That Initiative puts me somewhere between 5-6% chance to be critted. I have noticed a fair increase in survivability, thanks to being critted less often (I was up around 20% chance to be critted before I started the shift).

This is my current build.
This is my current renown build (basically just going for Initiative)

Anyone have any insight/suggestions to share (other than the obvious, getting more RR and better gear ;-) ).

Edit: fixed link problem

» Edited on: 2010-02-27 09:01:07

Well, I'm not super familiar with the Swordmaster required stats, but from an IB standpoint I can give you some tank tips. Disclaimer: this is what works for me, but maybe it won't work for you! Sorry if it doesn't! I think my stats line up close to: Strength: 765 Toughness: 665 Initiative: 230 Wounds: 860 Weapon Skill: 350 (I realize this stat isn't a big SM stat, but I posted it for referance) First off, for RvR it doesn't pay off to stack Initiative really high. At least that's my experience for my character. I suppose if you're running a Sword and Board combo, it would be nice to have, but not before Toughness or Wounds. I still crit regularly on tanks like Anomandar and Axewoof, I just don't crit for much damage, which I'd guess is due to their massive Toughness. <<< Purely Speculation Toughness seems to make a huge difference in RvR for me, I aim for at least 650 for any build I've ran, simply because it allows me to mitigate alot of damage. After Toughness, I'd start stacking Wounds, but not crazy-like. If you can hit 800 wounds unbuffed, you'll probably be doing well, though more is nice. While I was running full Invader (lvls 55-70ish) I was up around 730 toughness and my wounds were around 800 unbuffed, which let me last aproximately as well as I do now. Those numbers sound pretty high on a whole I think, but once you start picking up your Conqueror and Sentinal gear (I think I did a 4 Sent/2 Conq combo from the low 40's all the way up to 55) they fill up pretty quick. Swordmasters also have the benefit of not needing to stack Weapon Skill to do decent damage to armored targets, so you can sacrifice some from there for other stats. Good luck!

» Edited on: 2010-02-27 14:26:10

I put points into STR and weapon skill for my knight, and never more than 20 points. Minimizing crit is more for PVE than PVP. I put points in weapon skill to increase parry for Runefang procs. For you I would put 20 in STR and the rest in initiative if initiative is something you want.

» Edited on: 2010-02-28 00:03:47

I wonder if this could be, to a degree at least, a (2h?) SM vs "normal" tank thing? I know that sometimes I die in SCs/ORvR before a healer can react, and when I do, it's almost always going to be a string of crits that got me (either from a single sorc or focus fire). So, if I can reduce the chance of that string of crits, seems logical to me that I'm increasing the odds of a healer being able to react and keep me alive. I suppose I could likely accomplish much the same thing by going S&B instead; but I've found that when I do, I can't really do much "tanking" (i.e., defending my realm mates) because Destro just ignores me. It's frustrating waling away on someone who just completely ignores you, because you're too hard to kill for the amount of damage you're doing. ;-) So I was looking for a middle ground, where I can still pack a punch, but be more defensive than your typical "DPS" tank. I think a big problem is that I'm still just in Anni and trying strategies that I don't have stats (from either equipment or RR) to support yet. :-) But y'all are right... spec'ed like this, I'm not doing any more (if as much) damage as I would be S&B. The only real difference is I don't "look" like someone my enemies can safely ignore, so I still draw attention. But they're still going to mow me down fairly quickly... just not QUITE as quickly as they did before I stacked Initiative. ;-) IOW, I think I'll revisit this idea when I get higher RR; but for now, I might as well go back to a bit more "traditional" build.

What Tactics are you using?

» Edited on: 2010-02-28 00:03:47

One of the nice things about Swordmaster is that you can still do decent damage with a S&B, simply because you can still do alot of spirit damage. From an IB standpoint, it's hard to do much damage with a shield because armor mitigation eats up most of what we can put out. I'm kinda of the same mindset as far as not going all-out dps. I could switch up some gear and gain another 25-30 +dps, and pick up 8% crit or more, but I really don't feel like it'll pay off. I'll try it at some point as I level, just for something to do, but right now I like to focus on keeping good survivability. As for feeling like you get 'mowed down', well, that's gonna happen at the lower renown rank, especially if you're in a group that's not well coordinated fighting a group that is. Autofocus happens. Here's how I approach the thinking on the S&B vs 2Hander for tanks in RvR: A tank essentially serves one primary purpose, and that is to Guard someone else in the group. That might be a DPS or it might be a healer, depending on the group. Occasionally it's even another tank, but not often. After Guard, most tanks have some sort of group utility (like Oathfriend or Auras) and a number of crowd control abilities that differentiate them a bit from each other. If you're doing the Guard part right, and keeping your group utility and CC going, then you're doing your job as a tank. Typically, the tanks will be the last targets to die in a group, simply because they 'can be ignored' as you've been experiencing, Teth. So, if you outlast the rest of your group consistantly, while performing your job effectively, does it matter how long you live once your group goes down? Oh, you don't die? Fantastic, but you don't kill either. You're a non-factor. So, in RvR, I think it's better to be able to deal some damage as a tank, because helping kill destro faster is another benefit you can add to your group as a tank. Sometimes it's even enough damage to turn the tide of a battle. As long as you arn't dieing before your Guarded target because of Guard damage, then why not run with a 2hander and break yourself out of the 'can be ignored' category? At lower RR, having a shield up makes a huge difference in survivability though. Shoot, at high RR it makes a huge difference, too! And it does have its uses, especially in larger-scale battles when throwing up a Hold the Line can really make a difference for the team. It's smart to always carry a shield and 1hander with you if you do decide to go with a 2hander. You never know when Stage 2 will happen and you'll need to tank for the King instance!

Stacking Initive will kill all your others stats. It does not scale well at all! You best option for keeping decent stats in Str/Tough is to get some crit reduction gear. There is a ring for a quest in Bastion Stair that gives -2% to be critted with toughness/wounds on it. Sent helm and Invader gloves/Warlord boots also when you get there are nice. As for S/B tanking in RvR the large scale the fight the less you feel like you are doing any good. I played full S/B Dspec until RR60 and just got more an more frustrated (LOTD pocket items was the last straw). I don't know if they will keep the Ironclad SC but they will have a 6V6 SC go fulltime I think and in that setting tanks really shine. Guards true power,in such close quarters is huge and for once you can really see how powerful Challege can be. I pop Challenge and duck around a corner so it lasts the full 15 seconds or 30% dmg reducs and watch Destros damage disappear on my teammates and once they are AP starved I come back around an assist down with my DPS. Challenge and floating guard are powerful, it may not show on score boards but any good player knows better and will thank you for it. Try all the different Liniments/pots you can get a hold of as well. There are so many combos you can run now for different situations its great. I am for sure an addict so much so that though I hate crafting I got buthcering and spend time not in RvR mindlessly grinding spiders so my pot dealers can keep me well stocked. Wounds pots are okay but if you can get into the mid 800s unbuffed for RvR you are fine. Toughness pots are my new thing with some RR changes but there are so many combos to choose from. My baseline RvR stats: Str: 782 Tough: 702 Wounds: 835(give or take) Initive: 14% chance to be critted However I now always run with Lin: Peerless Defense 60 toughness and -5% chance to be critted. All of this was done so I could max out Str in my RR trees and get up to Str/WS 3. With the linment and in melee/grudge upped my Str tops out at around 902 and my to be crit chance is down to 9.9 with 762 toughness. A lot of the numbers you see really do just come from gear/RR but its also just playing with everything available to you. When I was around your RR my strength was 500 my WS was a joke and my chance to be critted was meh. Really at lower RRs you have to focus on 2 maybe 3 stats. For me as an IB it was toughness, wounds, and Block %. Early on its just hard to hybridize without the RRs to play with so its best to just go all in on one style spec until you have to gear/RR to back it up. So if you want to go D spec go all in and get toughness through the roof get HP regen when you can and for SMs I think its easier for you guys to get parry as comapared to block. WIth time and gear you can play with more specs. I know Sartoris (SM) respecs like 5-6 times a week trying out differnt stuff here an there. He even has a Burst dmg S/B spec thats just hilarious 14 plus Death blows in an SC with a S/B just cracks me up. And even a set up which he has tanked LV and up to boss 7 in VL with a 2 hander. As far as SMs go he may be worth bugging cause I've seen him attempt a lot of different specs.

» Edited on: 2010-03-01 07:57:53

Garric, my tactics are (generally) Great Weapon Mastery, Balanced Accuracy, Adept Movements (since the last patch nerfed Potent Enchantments) and Rugged. I switch out AM for Menace if I'm PvE MT'ing. Thanks, Korzak... what you say pretty well bears out that I have a worthy goal in mind, even if I haven't yet found the path to get from where I am to there. ;-) And I always carry the best 1hander and shield I can find in my pack, even if rarely (never?) take them out and actually use them. I keep trying to use ED when I equip them, I'm so used to being 2H. :-D And thanks to you, too, Beetles. Some nice, juicy morsels in that post! Looks like I need to level up an Apothecary. I, too, spend a lot of time farming for crafting (Talisman-making) stuff... to sell to be able to afford liniments! ;-) Works ok, but I'm finding what I want is not necessarily available when I want it. Need to cut out the middle-man, I guess. And yeah, I'm a constant re-spec'er, too. I'm always looking for a "sweet spot" others have missed. Once in a great while, I even find one. ;-)

I'm late to the party but here is my 2-cents on running a 2 handed SM: You will be squishy for a tank until you get up to 45 or so and can choose between the best of Conq and Annihilator. Then you will be somewhat squishy for a tank until you can get to the best of Invader/Conq. This is as far as I've gotten with my "survivable" 2-hander SM at RR60/61: 761 Str (don't worry about this. It will come with the armor combos) 542 Toughness 343 Weapon Skill 183 Init 853 Wounds I have not done a lot of PvE except enemy WC in LotD so most my jewelry are green stuff and I have a bunch of +20 or so talis. I could, for instance trade off about 100 STR in talismans for toughness if I wanted more survivability. However, I view myself as very heavy MDPS and play accordingly so I mostly worry about having enough health to get to the target or to escort an mdps to the target. The other key to your survivability as a 2-hander is knowing when to pop Wall of Darting Steel and/or Blade Shield (an M3). That is an art, so if you figure it out let me know. ;) I run one of the three tactic combos most of the time: Ensorcelled Agony/Balanced Accuracy/Great Weapon Mastery/Rugged Ensorcelled Agony/Balanced Accuracy/Great Weapon Mastery/Deep Incision Ensorcelled Agony/Balanced Accuracy/Great Weapon Mastery/Focused Offense Lastly, one thing that makes a huge difference to survivability is cross-guarding with another tank. A side benefit is it also tends to keep you both on the same target. Hope you found something useful in there. Good luck.